Curse

-Lotus- · Sep 17, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

Quick reply:

Tanking is commonly misunderstood and to most players it means 8 tanking skills.

To me tanking it's something as: warrior goes in with some pre-protting, grabbing aggro first (that doesn't mean aggro whole place for meteor shower). Also a good tank knows how to corner/body block.

see what i did there?

_Nihilist_ · Sep 19, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Leave it to Ganni to simplify my walls of text in just a couple of sentences! This is why Ganni = pwn! (especially the part about not aggro'ing everything for a MS... overrated skill...)

generaldave · Sep 19, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

This hfff thing is starting to take a while now. I'm only half way there. On the other hand, I am half way there.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 19, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Wait, you're HFFF'ing for SY? You only need R1 for it to be more useful than any tanking build. Unless of course you mean the initial 103k. I think Savio worked it out to be 15 mins a day for 10 days, assuming you're donating to your alliance to get double points. It's not that bad.

generaldave · Sep 19, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I do mean the initial. I've been using whatever time I have on Guild Wars to it. Yes, I am donating to the alliance. The quicker I get this over with, the better. I've been working for 2 days and am just over half way there.

_Nihilist_ · Sep 20, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Keep up the good work, generaldave!

generaldave · Sep 20, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Dave's fine. Thanks a bunch. Again, thank you for all your help. I assume that the H in hfff stands for heroes, so technically that's not what I'm doing tho. I've been just running it with my permasin. I had bad luck with the heroes. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Maybe I'm doing something wrong because I never know where the heroes are at when they are running.

Red Sand · Sep 20, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

In other PvE games, 'holding agro' is a critical skill for a tank: I'd appreciate if someone explained how a warrior 'holds agro' in GW.

Savio · Sep 20, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by generaldave

Maybe I'm doing something wrong because I never know where the heroes are at when they are running.

Give the heroes Troll Unguent (assuming they're A/R or R/A). They'll use it after they reach their flags.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 21, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

In other PvE games, 'holding agro' is a critical skill for a tank: I'd appreciate if someone explained how a warrior 'holds agro' in GW.

In GW, there isn't an actual skill or setting you can take that makes you automatically take aggro. It's all in the technique. I've covered it in the sticky (PS: I know Guru has chewed up my second post). Tbh it's not worth the trouble going through all the trouble to take aggro properly all the time, especially since SY makes it not matter.

birdfoot · Sep 21, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

@OP:

I'm not entirely sure of what response you're expecting to receive but I'm guessing you're looking for some approval of the viability of warrior tanking in PvE?

One differentiating factor between a warrior and other professions is that the former has the ability to take loads of damage (due to high armor and being able to almost double their health with certain skills) compared to other professions. Most players forget that no other profession can withstand as much damage while still providing a huge window for healing (from monks) since they do not have access to the essential tanking skills in Strength attribute.

Anyway, I do think tanking is a viable option in PvE. Although it may not be the most efficient method of engaging mobs, but I think that wasn't the point of your topic. If we're talking about tanking with heavy enchantment removal in mind, a warrior is definitely the natural tank since the profession is not as dependent on enchantments and pretty much immune to interruption for survival. Of course, warriors aren't the only ones that can tank, but I won't discuss that since it's not on topic.

However, one thing I wanted to point out is that Dolyak Signet is a rather risky skill to use for tanking as there's no way of removing the slower movement speed. If the mobs break from aggro and the signet is in effect, the backline will be jeopardized. An AoE snare and "None shall pass!" is also useful as a safety blanket in case a party member accidentally runs into aggro range causing the mobs to give chase.

I guess the reason why most players don't really care about tanking is that the game doesn't really have the mechanics set in for effective tanking. Without the ability to regain aggro, tanking is kinda like do or die in the game. Once enemies break aggro, the equipped skills that were meant for tanking becomes less effective against the upcoming onslaught. And with better options through PvE-only skills, it's safer to go with more damage and less reliance on successful tanking.

Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with tanking. However, most groups would prefer other choices of play. A group that plays with a strategy that revolves around tanking is definitely more reliant on teamwork and fewer mistakes to see success. Nevertheless, tanking still occurs in groups nowadays when there is an opportunity to body-block mobs, except that there isn't a requirement for warriors to be 'self-sufficient' since most of these are provided by monks.

@Tyla
No offence here. Perhaps we should ask Anet if warriors are indeed made for damage and nothing else. All other professions are able to deal significant damage with the right build. But then aren't all professions made for damage in that case? My guess is that a warrior is probably only good for damage now due to their game mechanics which made tanking moot (making it really hard for warriors to find their true purpose in the game). :/

moriz · Sep 21, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

warriors are designed to dish out damage and rely primarily on high armor for "tanking", although GW was never really designed with tanking in mind. in fact, GW was specifically designed so that the "tank-n-spank" method of play is not the most effective.

out of all the professions, warriors are the one that can sustain the highest damage output of almost any class. the only exceptions are pve assassins, but those rely on a very specific (and overpowered) build. in the end, it's not about what a profession is DESIGNED to do, but what it can do best. warriors are the undisputed kings of melee, and melee characters are the undisputed best damage dealers, which makes warriors the best damage dealers in the game. you can waste all that potential and just stand there to absorb damage. it's definitely one way to play the game. however, it is not the most efficient. since GW is all about efficiency, doing something in anything but the most efficient way is just foolish.

DarkGanni · Sep 21, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

in the end, it's not about what a profession is DESIGNED to do, but what it can do best.

Very good point there^, also good job on the rest of the other parts of your post.

All this warrior talk is making me dust off my good old wammo

generaldave · Sep 21, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Well, I just got Save Yourselves. It lasts 4 seconds and costs 8 adrenaline. I hope this is some form of a joke. That's a lot of adrenaline in very little time. I haven't tested it yet, but it just doesn't seem viable and neither does wasting another week getting factions to up the ranks. Maybe, someone else in the party is supposed to make my shouts last longer?

FlamingMetroid · Sep 21, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by generaldave

Well, I just got Save Yourselves. It lasts 4 seconds and costs 8 adrenaline. I hope this is some form of a joke. That's a lot of adrenaline in very little time. I haven't tested it yet, but it just doesn't seem viable and neither does wasting another week getting factions to up the ranks. Maybe, someone else in the party is supposed to make my shouts last longer?

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...Orders_Dervish
lol adrenal problems

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 21, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by generaldave

Well, I just got Save Yourselves. It lasts 4 seconds and costs 8 adrenaline. I hope this is some form of a joke. That's a lot of adrenaline in very little time. I haven't tested it yet, but it just doesn't seem viable and neither does wasting another week getting factions to up the ranks. Maybe, someone else in the party is supposed to make my shouts last longer?

No. Dragon Slash will give you 5 adrenaline. Having "For Great Justice!" up aswell will double your adrenaline gain. You'll be getting 10 adrenaline every time you use Dragon Slash, which just happens to be every swing for the duration of FGJ. I was at R1 for months (@ 3 seconds) and I handled it perfectly well.

_Nihilist_ · Sep 21, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

No, generaldave, you can keep up "SY!" pretty much indefinitely for around 24 seconds with "For Great Justice!", Dragon Slash, and "Save Yourselves!". An IAS stance such as Flail helps *greatly* with this.

*With "For Great Justice!" up you gain double Adrenaline
*Dragon Slash gives you 4 Adrenaline on hit @ 14 Swordsmanship, as well as the 1 Adrenaline for landing the attack in the first place
*That's 10 Adrenaline - instant charge on "Save Yourselves!" *and* Dragon Slash
*Use "SY!" and hit with 1 attack (this is why I suggest IAS Stance)
*Use Dragon Slash (another 10 Adrenaline)
*continue to chain

Trust me, it's simple. "FGJ!" lasts for 20 seconds, so your "SY!" when chained can cover about 24 seconds.

After "FGJ!" is done, before it has recharged, you use Brawling Headbutt to KD, Steelfang Slash on the KD to gain 8 Adrenaline, which should recharge Dragon Slash and "SY!", Use "SY!", hit with one attack then Dragon Slash, use Brawling Headbutt to KD... and repeat until "FGJ!" is back up.

Trust me, if Marty's second post in he sticky hadn't been eaten by Guru, and if the skill icons were working, you'd see exactly how this works... which is, to say at the least, like a charm!

[EDIT]

Marty is right, you should be able to Dragon Slash. SY. Dragon Slash. SY. No problem.

I add the extra attack in just to make sure that my Adrenaline is there on all my skills, which is a piece of cake with Flail giving me IAS.

generaldave · Sep 21, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Well I tested it without dragon slash and was able to keep it up the duration of fgj, but that's without using a 10 adrenal skill. I still have my dervish skills and warrior's endurance.

Teutonic Paladin · Sep 21, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

8 Adrenaline is easy to keep up if you put a bit of thought into it, Dark Fury or For Great Justice both essentially reduce that cost to 4, and you can score four hits in under four seconds with an IAS. It can be gained even faster if you use attack skills with small activation times (like you would in an endurance build). Even if SY is down half the time (normal attacks), you're still mitigating incredibly amounts of damage for virtually no effort.

A Leprechaun · Sep 21, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Even if you don't pay it much thought and use a normal build you can keep it up a lot of the time. Even if you just keep it up 1/4 of the time it will greatly help.

~A Leprechaun~